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Judge Finds Trump In Contempt, Threatens Jail Time; Greene, Johnson To Meet Again Today Amid Ouster Threat; Israel Seizes Control Of Rafah Crossing Following Airstrikes. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 07, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:37]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, 5:30 a.m. here in Washington. A live look at New York City on this Tuesday morning where Donald Trump's hush money trial gets back underway today. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Wonderful to have you with us.

With that Trump trial set to resume in just a few hours, we did get a pretty major ruling in the case yesterday. Judge Juan Merchan finding Trump in contempt for violating his gag order for the 10th time. He fined the former president an additional $1,000, but he said he'll consider jailing him going forward. Merchan telling Trump on Monday that the last thing he wants to do is put him behind bars but that he will if it is necessary and appropriate.

TEXT: "Mr. Trump, it's important you understand, the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former President of the United States and possibly the next president. The magnitude of this decision is not lost on me, but at the end of the day I have a job to do. So as much as I don't want to impose a jail sanction, I want you to understand that I will if necessary and appropriate."

HUNT: When the trial resumed, a longtime Trump Organization employee who had helped arrange the hush money reimbursements to Michael Cohen testified. There's still no word on who will take the stand today.

This is what Trump said after the trial yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to watch every word I tell you people. You ask me a question -- a simple question -- and I'd like to give it, but I can't talk about it because this judge has given me a gag order and said you'll go to jail if you violate it. And frankly, you know what, our Constitution is much more important than jail. It's not even close. I'll do that sacrifice any day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: "I'll do that sacrifice any day."

Joining me to discuss all of this, CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson. Joey, good morning.

What -- when you see that -- when you see him say that -- I mean, what goes through your mind?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, Kasie, good morning to you.

I think what goes through my mind is that he'll push the limit and perhaps exceed the limit to potentially find himself in jail because he disagrees with the judge's ruling.

Just as a reset, right, there are things, as we know, Kasie, that he can talk about and wax poetic about day and night that are not offensive at all to the constitution, right? The order itself is not offensive.

But remember, he can attack Biden even though Biden has nothing to do with this prosecution. He could attack the prosecutor all he wants. That's Mr. Alvin Bragg of Manhattan. He could attack the judge. He could talk about the unfairness of the process.

The judge just doesn't want any witness intimidation at all and so there's exclusions there. He wants to protect the integrity and the proceedings by making sure the jury is either not intimidated and put in fear, et cetera, or family members. So it seems to be pretty straightforward.

But what I get out of that is that Mr. Trump potentially may test the judge again to be held in contempt the 11th time. I hope it doesn't happen. No indication it will happen. But based upon what he said it just may happen.

HUNT: Well -- I mean, I will say, Joey, these -- this ruling came -- there -- we had the initial allegations of 10 times he had violated it. The judge found that was true in nine. Then there was these -- then there were these additional four. Trump does seem to have backed off a bit since the time -- the timing of those kind of collective 14 was pretty close together. Kind of the way they made their way to court was separate.

But we haven't, since Trump was fined, seen new instances of this, have we?

JACKSON: So, we haven't, right, to your point, and he does seem to have backed off. But I think there's a measure of unpredictability. And in that statement, there are many other things --

HUNT: There always is with Trump, right?

JACKSON: -- he can say. Right. I mean, there's just so many other things you could say other than listen, I'll test the constitution and I'll take that chance any day -- whatever. There's a process and quite frankly, Kasie, if somebody violates an order twice -- three times -- I think a judge gets impatient enough to perhaps put him in. We're at the 10th time. What don't you understand? And so, yes, it's an election year. Yes, he's running for president. Yes, he got on -- you see him there with -- talking about Columbia and the -- and the fact that the ceremony at Columbia is now -- had been canceled, and other things in the universe. Talk about all that. You just can't talk about things that intimidate witnesses and that put them in danger. It's just that simple.

HUNT: Yeah. There are no limits on any of those things that you just outlined.

So, Joey, we saw yesterday quite a few bank statements, lots of records. We were kind of tilted away from the sex and lies and audiotapes of the previous week of the trial.

[05:35:09]

What do you expect to unfold today? And the prosecution has been keeping who is testifying next so close to the vest.

JACKSON: Yeah. So usually, just so that you know, Kasie, in a normal process and in a normal trial the prosecution really gives the defense a heads up -- it's only the right and proper thing to do -- as to who is testifying next, right? Trials are many witnesses. You certainly want to be prepared as a defense attorney. You want to protect your client's constitutional rights.

And it's important to remind everyone that you brought that upon yourself. The reason the prosecution is not giving the witness information is because they don't trust that the defendant will not say things disparaging about the witnesses and perhaps intimidate them in some way.

So the fact that we have to play this guessing game as to who is going to testify and who's not going to testify, who is it going to be is a function of the fact that we have a gag order in place that's not seemingly been followed, right?

So in the normal course, I just say that to you because we would be talking in a normal world about who the next witness is and what they would bring to table. How they would prove the prosecution's case. We can't.

We have to speculate about OK, well, they had the accounting and the comptroller on and that ties in the documents. And it's about time, by the way, because that's the critical nature of the case. And they talked about the Sharpie pen, and they talked about how Trump signs his own checks and how the fact that he's not going to sign things that he won't. He'll just void the checks. That's the stuff that's critical.

And so, yesterday, finally, Kasie -- and it's very important because remember, you watch a movie, right? A trial is, in some respects, theatrical and you have to lay out the nature of your case. And that's what the prosecution has been doing by setting up the case, setting up the scheme, and setting up their theory with respect to conspiracy with regard to coverup. And then we got to the meat and potatoes because at the end of the day, the 34 counts is about the checks, about the ledgers, about the invoices -- and that's what we saw.

And so, I think that's how they're laying it out. I think they'll continue to do that. And then we get to, of course, the Stormy Daniels and the Michael Cohen. When that will be -- it's got to be soon. The prosecution said I think it will be two more weeks, right, until we end this case, and so we know they're coming. The critical issue is when.

HUNT: Yeah.

All right, Joey Jackson for us. Joey, always enjoy having you. Thanks very much for being here.

JACKSON: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, let's turn now to Capitol Hill where Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene may be signaling her willingness to back off from the threats that she's made to force a vote to oust House Speaker Mike Johnson.

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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I have been patient, I have been diligent, I have been steady, and I have been focused on the facts, and none of that has changed. So I just had a long discussion with the speaker in his office about ways to move forward for a Republican- controlled House of Representatives. We're talking to him again tomorrow based on our discussion today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Greene, who met with Johnson for two hours yesterday, also spoke in the last week with former president, Donald Trump. Sources tell CNN that Trump didn't directly tell Greene to drop the motion but signaled that it could be a distraction for a party that is hoping to keep its slim majority this fall.

Joining me now is Tia Mitchell. She's Washington correspondent for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Tia, good morning.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Good morning.

HUNT: So what do we know about the meeting yesterday between Greene and Johnson? I mean, it's a long one. Two hours is a long time.

MITCHELL: Yeah. So I think it's more surprising what we don't know. Marjorie Taylor Greene, when she left the meeting, was very disciplined and not really showing her hand. We know it was two hours because I was there for the whole two hours.

HUNT: Standing outside that office --

MITCHELL: Yes.

HUNT: -- in a little mini rotunda -- yeah. MITCHELL: Absolutely.

And we know that she -- when know that there is a pause because she had pledged to as soon as they came back for votes she was going to try to trigger the motion, and that's not what happened yesterday. And so we know she's pausing.

We know they're meeting again around lunchtime today. And it appears they're both trying to find a way to move forward that a) prevents this vote from actually happening, but b) gives Marjorie Taylor Greene some wins that she can save face if she doesn't move forward after all these weeks of promising that she would.

HUNT: Right.

And what role do you think Trump is playing in this? Because, I mean, the looming thing here is that Republicans are, it seems, likely to lose control of the House in the fall. Certainly, Democrats feel pretty confident about taking it back, which means the speaker is out of a job regardless, right?

MITCHELL: Um-hum, right.

HUNT: So how does that aspect of it play in?

MITCHELL: So I think it's widely thought that Mike Johnson will not be the Republican -- House Republicans' leader after the election, even if -- you know, even if they're not in the majority, they'll still have a party leader --

[05:40:05]

HUNT: (INAUDIBLE).

MITCHELL: -- that is likely to -- unlikely to be Mike Johnson.

And so, there are a lot of Republicans who say we're in the home stretch. Just leave him alone. He's got, what, five or six more months of this -- seven months -- and then we'll have a new Republican leader. We'll figure it out then.

I think that's what Donald Trump is saying is that he would like to avoid the perception, again, that House Republicans are dysfunctional and in chaos because he doesn't think it reflects well on the party and, therefore, doesn't reflect well on him when he's trying to win in November, let alone their thin kind of chances of keeping the majority.

So I think in general, party leaders, leaders in the House, other Republicans, and Trump would like this to go away.

HUNT: Yes. Well, I guess we'll see.

Tia Mitchell for us. Thank you, Tia. I really appreciate your time.

All right. Coming up here, negotiators in Cairo scrambling to keep Gaza ceasefire talks from collapsing.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NBA ANNOUNCER: He gets it to DiVincenzo -- a three-pointer! Down it goes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The Knicks using a late surge to get a jump on the Pacers. Our Bleacher Report is ahead.

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[05:45:30]

HUNT: Welcome back.

Israel is sending a delegation to Cairo today for ceasefire talks after conducting a series of airstrikes overnight and taking control of the Palestinian side of the Rafah Crossing. Video from Egyptian state TV shows those apparent IDF strikes. Palestinian officials say multiple people have been killed. And new video shows the devastation to the city and the search for bodies in the wake of those strikes.

But less than 12 hours ago, it was a different scene in Gaza. Celebrations broke out after Hamas accepted a hostage release and ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar. But the Israelis rejected that. The U.S. says they remain opposed to any Israeli operations in the Rafah area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: We've been very clear that we don't support a major ground operation in Rafah -- operations in general that put at greater risk the more than a million people that are sheltering there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining us now is Democratic strategist and former deputy assistant Secretary of State in the Obama administration, Joel Rubin. Joel, good morning. Great to see you.

JOEL RUBIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Hey, good morning.

HUNT: So help us -- help us understand what we saw yesterday because --

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- there was kind of this confusing, misleading announcement from Hamas saying we've accepted this deal. The Israelis came back and kind of said well, that actually wasn't the deal that we had put on the table.

What happened?

RUBIN: Yeah, a lot of whiplash yesterday. Look, the Israelis had agreed to one deal, then Hamas agreed to a different deal. And basically, what we have right now is Director Burns, of the CIA, out there in Cairo trying to close these gaps. So it looks like a lot of back-and-forth.

Hamas did win the P.R. war there yesterday by saying they agree -- they accept. But fortunately, the White House and others looked at it and really wanted to understand what was in the black and white, and it's not a done deal yet. There is this line in diplomacy nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. And so, it's not agreed, and I think that's where we're at.

HUNT: Yeah, we did -- we talk about that on Capitol Hill as well when you're trying to get a bill passed.

RUBIN: Hard negotiation.

HUNT: So, Joel, we saw the sort of celebrations that broke out --

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- when there was this deal that had been announced.

Can you help me understand what are the dynamics between Hamas and the people of Gaza in terms of what they want to happen here?

RUBIN: I mean, look, the Palestinian people in Gaza have been traumatized not just by this war but also for more than a decade by Hamas leadership. This is a leadership that had come to power by killing other Palestinians and by killing the leaders of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. They're repressive. They have been using funds that were designated for the Palestinian people in Gaza to build tunnels underground, to build military capacity, and not to provide the kinds of support of the people of Gaza that they deserve.

And so, clearly, the Gazan people are fed up. They want peace. When we see these scenes, we look at people who have no agency and no control right now over the decisions being made for them.

And this is where the negotiations -- the big picture is heading, is will Hamas still have control over Gaza on the day after or will they not? And I think from the Israeli perspective the answer should be and is a resounding no. And that's why we see Egypt and Qatar and other Arab states trying to throw ideas into the mix. And Prime Minister Netanyahu is very resistant to those idea, but those are ideas President Biden backs, of having Palestinians leave Gaza and let the Palestinian people breathe. But Hamas has been repressive and a horrifying leader of Gaza for well over a decade.

HUNT: So how do you explain and understand what the Israelis are doing in Rafah? Because they have --

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- made incursions there --

RUBIN: That's right.

HUNT: -- but it is not the full-scale invasion that Netanyahu has said is coming.

RUBIN: A lot of bobbing and weaving here. I think the Israelis -- they're trying to pinpoint pressure into Gaza and into the leadership of Hamas to say we can come at will to get you if you don't agree to a deal to release our hostages. It's a serious pressure point. It's putting more pressure on the negotiators.

It does not look like a full-scale invasion. They understand President Biden has said not to that. But they also domestically can't just turn away while the negotiations continue. They have to look at these Gaza leaders and say they need to be brought to a serious endpoint in this negotiation, and I think that's what they're doing right now.

HUNT: How does the looming election affect the relationship between President Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu on this?

[05:50:00]

RUBIN: Well, you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu --

HUNT: It's a really simple question, I realize.

RUBIN: And maybe a simple answer for you.

Prime Minister Netanyahu -- he had a great relationship with Donald Trump and yet, Donald Trump has been frustrated with him as well.

I think that Prime Minister Netanyahu -- he really looks at this for his own survival. At the end of the day, what he's doing is trying to stay in power as long as he can. Staying in power paradoxically, like, with Donald Trump could keep him out of prison. He has a looming case against him in the Israeli courts.

And President Biden is a stronger supporter of Israel writ large. He's not a Netanyahu supporter and this is one of the things he gets criticized for too much here domestically. He's an Israel supporter. And for him -- and we saw with Sen. Schumer as well in the Senate arguing that they need to have different leadership in Israel. The president has not said that directly but that's what the Israeli people deserve.

Netanyahu is at 15 percent approval there. But for now, Netanyahu is in a survival game while he's also trying to make sure the Israel people feel that they have a day after next to Gaza. But President Biden -- I'm sure if Prime Minister Netanyahu were to move exit stage left tomorrow, he wouldn't be shedding a tear.

HUNT: Well, Max Foster and I -- who we have on earlier in the hour almost every day -- have talked repeatedly about Netanyahu's -- underestimating Netanyahu -- do it at your own peril --

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- basically.

RUBIN: A survivor beyond all survivors. He's been in the leadership post since the '90s off and on.

HUNT: Yeah.

RUBIN: Three decades is a long time and he knows how to survive.

HUNT: All right, Joel Rubin for us. Joel, thank you.

RUBIN: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right, time now for sports. The Knicks rally in the fourth quarter to pull off a series-opening win against the Pacers.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.

So it's only the second round but Jalen Brunson already having just an all-time great playoffs. Last night, Brunson with his fourth-straight 40-point game. He's the first to do that in the playoffs since Michael Jordan. And Brunson scoring 21 of his 43 in that fourth quarter. With the entire MSU crowd on their feet, Brunson just with huge bucket after huge bucket in the final minutes.

And with the game tied at 115, a kickball. Maybe it shouldn't have been called a kickball. The Pacers weren't happy. Brunson -- he's going to get it to Donte DiVincenzo after that and knocks down the tree with 40 seconds left.

Pacers fans were also not happy about this call this morning. Down one with 15 seconds left, Myles Turner called for a moving screen there.

The Knicks would hold on to win 121-117 to take a 1-0 lead in the series.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALEN BRUNSON, GUARD, NEW YORK KNICKS: The 40 points were cool and all, but it's the little things that help us win games like that. And so, I'm just happy I have the group of guys that I do, and I just know that we're going to fight every single day -- and that's all I'm really thinking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right. The Timberwolves, meanwhile, routing the Nuggets to take a two game to none lead over the defending champs. Anthony Edwards and Karl-Anthony Towns both scoring 27 as Minnesota now a perfect 6-0 in the playoffs thus far. The 106-80 victory is the biggest postseason win in T-Wolves history.

Minnesota getting this huge win without their defensive anchor, Rudy Gobert, who was back in Minneapolis for the birth of his son.

And while Gobert missed his game for the birth of his son, Brandon Carlo of the Bruins -- he was able to multitask. Carlo was with his wife for the birth of their second child early yesterday morning. Crew Corbett was born around 3:00 a.m. Well, with mom and son doing well, Carlo hopped on a jet to South Florida, and he scored in the second period to help the Bruins win game one over the Panthers 5-1.

And Carlo was then given the team MVP jacket after the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON CARLO, DEFENSEMAN, BOSTON BRUINS: Hey, fellows. So much gratitude to play with you guys. It's been a crazy 24 hours but I'm super blessed. In game seven, you guys had my back. I appreciate it. Let's keep building on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Yeah, what a 24 hours it was.

Now, NBA awards season continuing last night, and no surprise Spurs star Victor Wembanyama named the NBA Rookie of the Year. The seven- foot-four 20-year-old received all 99 first-place votes from the media panel. The Frenchman is the sixth unanimous pick for the honor in league history and the first to do it since Karl-Anthony Towns in 2016. Wemby is also one of the three players named finalist for the Defensive Player of the Year, which is going to be awarded tonight on TNT.

And they're going to make that announcement on "INSIDE THE NBA" right before the Celtics host the Cavs in game one of that series. That game is followed by Thunder-Mavs. Game one coverage starts at 6:30 Eastern.

All right, and finally, it was another day, another home run for Dodgers superstar Shohei Ohtani. He became the first Major Leaguer to reach 11 homers this season when he crushed that ball there for a two- run shot to center in the first against the Marlins. That's his fourth home run in three games. L.A. went on to win that one 6-3.

[05:55:05]

And Kasie, what a start for Ohtani. He's leading the Major League Baseball batting average at 370, 11 home runs. And whenever he hits it, just -- you never have a doubt, right? It's just way gone.

HUNT: Goodbye.

SCHOLES: Yeah.

HUNT: See you later.

All right, Andy Scholes. Andy, thank you very much. SCHOLES: Yeah.

HUNT: See you soon, I hope.

All right. Coming up next here, a big moment for President Biden as he heads to the Holocaust Museum for an address on combatting antisemitism.

Plus, tornadoes flattening homes in Oklahoma. That threat not over yet.

(COMMERCIAL)

HUNT: It's Tuesday, May 7th. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING, what could be a defining moment for President Biden. He's set to deliver an address from the Holocaust Memorial Museum.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'll do that sacrifice any day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Donald Trump insisting he's willing to go to jail in order to speak his mind. Will the judge --